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Anybody Interested in a Clone Rookie Class?

Discussion forum for Kid Kart classes.

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Anybody Interested in a Clone Rookie Class?

Postby Brian Swanson » Fri Jul 20, 2012 3:04 pm

Kid Kart friends,

You've prob noticed Blake hasn't raced much this year. It's kinda pointless when he's 25lbs over weight for the class (he just turned 6 in April and is the size of a 9yr old). His pedals are all the way forward and can barely get in his seat.

SLKA in St Louis Mo. runs a Rookie Chonda class. Same chonda we are familiar with at NTK for sr classes. YES THEY RUN A RESTRICTOR PLATE for the Rookies in SLKA. They can race that class at age 7... And even run a cadet size kart.

Anybody interested in ditching the Comer? I know I am!

Maybe we can suggest a class add for next yr if anyone else is interested other than us. Who do I talk to in the NTK board to suggest this?

At least it's a cheaper engine that you can race from Rookie class all the way up to Sr. Class. Easy to find and easy to sell if needed (unlike comer crap).

If not... I guess Blake will have to wait til he turns 8 (April 27th 2014) to move into something big enough for him to fit in.

Thanks,
Brian
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Re: Anybody Interested in a Clone Rookie Class?

Postby Yaani-Mai Gaddy » Fri Jul 20, 2012 6:57 pm

Brian,

I think we looked into this briefly last year.

From what I remember we found the Honda clone engine is a bit big for the kid kart chassis.

We found that several clubs across the country use the Briggs & Stratton LO206 Junior engine http://www.briggsandstratton.com/engine ... 32+8202-01

It looks like a great alternative to the Comer and is sealed & cheaper and is smaller than the Honda clone so it should fit on a kid kart chassis better.

Often it takes one person to start a new class at a kart club. A few years ago I started the Chonda class, at first it was just myself, my husband & my son in the class & then because it was affordable & low maintenance the class made sense & it grew. I think an affordable, sealed low maintenance kid kart alternative engine package makes a lot of sense. If you were to start it I bet you would soon have others join you!
Yaani-Mai Gaddy
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Re: Anybody Interested in a Clone Rookie Class?

Postby Yaani-Mai Gaddy » Fri Jul 20, 2012 7:05 pm

Brian,

If your son has outgrown the kid kart chassis & can fit a cadet chassis, maybe you should talk to John Ray about getting a waiver for him to move to the Chonda Jr I class with the clone engine & a restrictor. The Chonda Jr 1 has a .500 purple restrictor (that is the restrictor we used to use with the adult 320lb class). Maybe we can start a new class for ages 6-8 on a cadet chassis with a red 0.375 restrictor plate. You should talk to John Ray about it.

Here is the NTK rule for the Chonda Jr 1

2.1.13.1 Chonda Jr. I: Ages 8-10. Weight 265 lbs. With 0.500 inch maximum intake restrictor.
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Re: Anybody Interested in a Clone Rookie Class?

Postby Leon Knox » Mon Jul 30, 2012 9:19 am

We have been running caged karts with my 5 year old on the clone motor with the green plate diffenitly would be up for some jr clone racing. we are in the process of trying to sell our caged karts so we can start racing with you guys i ave a 5 year old and a 10 year old the 10 is going to probably run jr2 clone just need to get our karts sold and find some new ones. Problem for her is she is 10 but over 5 feet tall so for her to fit we need an adult chassie will need to read up the chonda rules better to make sure she can race hate to stuff her in a cadet just to out grow it in a year.
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Re: Anybody Interested in a Clone Rookie Class?

Postby Brian Swanson » Mon Jul 30, 2012 3:55 pm

Yeah... Kid kart Briggs is a NO GO. Same weight requirement DOES NOT help Blake in Kid Kart class.

Our only option is a cadet size kart.

SLKA in St Louis has a sucessful Rookie Class using Chondas and Cadet size Karts. The weight would be perfect.

Yes, I know it takes a lot to start a class. But I know everyone wants to ditch the Comers ASAP.
I bought 2 chondas on ebay for $300 which is less than half of what a damn comer goes for!!!!

We DID NOT renew our membership because we wouldn't be racing much this yr due to his size. And we will not renew next yr unless we can come up with something.
NEW class equals new members. OR we will drive to St Louis all next yr. They would love to have our $$$.

Anybody want to commit to that class next yr? A head count might help our cause...
Hell, I'll build a kart and demo it if needed...
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Re: Anybody Interested in a Clone Rookie Class?

Postby Brian Swanson » Mon Jul 30, 2012 4:13 pm

 BOX STOCK ROOKIE
o
Age 7 to 12 years.
o
Minimum weight: 260 lbs.
o
87 Octane Gas Only.
o
Approved engine: BS Project 6.5 OHV only, with .550 inch maximum intake restrictor.
o
Cadet chassis allowed
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Re: Anybody Interested in a Clone Rookie Class?

Postby Jeff Mitchell » Wed Aug 01, 2012 3:06 pm

Since the St. Louis Kart Club was mentioned. I thought my experiences might be informative since we recently raced two of their club races prepairing for last weekends Kid Kart Nationals.
Truthfully, I did not notice any young clone classes that were bigger or even equal in size to that of the Comer Kid Kart class. I would think that GCKI from Katy Texas would have a better class to possibly duplicate if that is what is needed. Their Chonda Cadet Class seems to be doing well.

Brian has certainly identified a problem with the kid kart class but, it is not an issue with the quality of the comer engines. The problem that I agree with him on is that there is no allowance within the kid kart class for different sized kids. We have some of the younger beginning kids who need to add 20 pounds or more to meet weight while we have others who are trying to compete with 20+ pounds of extra weight.

I would suggest developing a second heavier weight comer option for the class where the kids could compete competitively. I would suggest trying something around the 170 pound range that allows the use of modified clutches and/or mufflers. These modifications should allow the heavier karts to be more competitive with the other kids while keeping the basic engine requirements the same. I also think the club could utilize a small competition committee to oversee classes to make minor adjustments in weight or modifications to improve equality as it becomes needed.

Finally, The Comer and the Kid Kart Class is a great class. It allows us or anyone else to travel anywhere in the state, to unload and to be competitive with kids at the other clubs because there are no flexes or pipes to change and the gear ratio is specified. Everyone runs the same basic rules with only a few exceptions for the air filter. Once our kids learn a new track they can be just as competitive as anyone. Too bad its not that easy for all of our classes.
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Re: Anybody Interested in a Clone Rookie Class?

Postby Mike Engstrom » Thu Aug 02, 2012 3:24 pm

I'm sure I will get flack for my opinions, but I've never been one to let that stop me. So, here it goes. When I see results, it sure looks to me like there is already way to many classes, and drivers never learn to race or develop any race craft. JMO. I hate that every young driver can't come in 1st place, but that's how racing is. I've often thought the kid karts should race just on the short track, that should put more emphasis on driver and setup, and level playing field a bit for someone giving up some weight. I'm not to upset anyone, but just some things to consider.
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Re: Anybody Interested in a Clone Rookie Class?

Postby Brian Swanson » Tue Aug 07, 2012 5:18 pm

Yes... Short track every race would be great.

But still giving up 25lbs on a 1.8hp engine.

Guess we will go motocross racing.
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Re: Anybody Interested in a Clone Rookie Class?

Postby Brian Swanson » Tue Aug 07, 2012 5:28 pm

Jeff Mitchell wrote:Since the St. Louis Kart Club was mentioned. I thought my experiences might be informative since we recently raced two of their club races prepairing for last weekends Kid Kart Nationals.
Truthfully, I did not notice any young clone classes that were bigger or even equal in size to that of the Comer Kid Kart class. I would think that GCKI from Katy Texas would have a better class to possibly duplicate if that is what is needed. Their Chonda Cadet Class seems to be doing well.

Brian has certainly identified a problem with the kid kart class but, it is not an issue with the quality of the comer engines. The problem that I agree with him on is that there is no allowance within the kid kart class for different sized kids. We have some of the younger beginning kids who need to add 20 pounds or more to meet weight while we have others who are trying to compete with 20+ pounds of extra weight.

I would suggest developing a second heavier weight comer option for the class where the kids could compete competitively. I would suggest trying something around the 170 pound range that allows the use of modified clutches and/or mufflers. These modifications should allow the heavier karts to be more competitive with the other kids while keeping the basic engine requirements the same. I also think the club could utilize a small competition committee to oversee classes to make minor adjustments in weight or modifications to improve equality as it becomes needed.

Finally, The Comer and the Kid Kart Class is a great class. It allows us or anyone else to travel anywhere in the state, to unload and to be competitive with kids at the other clubs because there are no flexes or pipes to change and the gear ratio is specified. Everyone runs the same basic rules with only a few exceptions for the air filter. Once our kids learn a new track they can be just as competitive as anyone. Too bad its not that easy for all of our classes.


Jeff,
They ran the Clone Rookie class at the Clone Nationals... A completely different weekend than the kid kart nationals. That is why you didn't see any.
And it's a fairly new class... $800 comers have been around for years. The cheaper clone engine class has some catching up to do. Obviously like anything else people are affraid of change. Trust me, if my 6yr old kid wasnt 4ft 7in and 80lbs I wouldn't be all about changing up the mix... He can race his KX65 next yr in motocross. So, at least he will be able to race something.
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Re: Anybody Interested in a Clone Rookie Class?

Postby Robbie Floyd » Tue Aug 07, 2012 10:09 pm

Forget the KX65, you need to get him on a KX85! Ricky Carmichael was a teenager before he got that tall. The short wheelbase of the 60 makes it even more of a handful to control. I'm going to have one kid 20lb's over and one 20 lb.'s under before long in the kid kart class. Hope to see you soon on the track.
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Re: Anybody Interested in a Clone Rookie Class?

Postby Mike Engstrom » Thu Aug 09, 2012 10:26 am

Maybe you need to look at dirt kart racing. It's a whole lot safer than motocross. Kids race in a kart with roll cage. Buy one chassis and can use it from beginner class 3.5 Briggs all the way to a 250, 2 stroke or 250 4 stroke. Even being a little over weight doesn't hurt you near as much on dirt tracking. It's a LOT on setup. 8-12 karts per class, dealing with traffic and learning race craft. Just a thought, give me a call, 817-638-5278
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Re: Anybody Interested in a Clone Rookie Class?

Postby Jeff Mitchell » Sun Aug 19, 2012 3:58 am

Brian,
Your right. The clone rookie class did run at the clone nationals. But that is not a kid kart class. The minimum age for that class is 7 years old. Any kid karters who run that class or anything other than the kid kart class must move up and are no longer elgible to compete in the kid kart class or its nationals in St Louis.

Your proposed class is the next step up rather than a replacement for the kid kart class. The 6.5 box stock clone is just too big for a kid kart therefore, it will most certainly require buying your mentioned cadet chassis. At the weight you proposed, I could put both of my boys on one of their kid karts and would still need to add an additional 75 lbs. of weight to be legal. (Since you will likely want to do the math: Their combined weight is 90 lbs.)

As far as your $800 dollar pricing of a comer, I think it is too high for a used motor. I bought the most expensive Comer I have seen on ebay in the past 18 months and it was well worth every penny paid. That being said at least 90% of the motors go for $650 or less with the majority selling between the 350-450 range. Motors priced more expensively do not typically sell. I have saved within my ebay watch list nearly all of the comers sold within the past six months and could prove these numbers if anyone so desires.

I THINK the kid kart class works fine as it is but could certainly be improved with a few changes. Instead of trashing the comers, allow additional engine options.
The the briggs L206 is likely a good alternative from the performance perspective. However, I do not believe the club ever specified the rules for this motor. I would suggest using the Jr 206 engine rules from Briggs and Straton. The comers and the briggs should then run within about 1/2 second of each other with the briggs potentially being faster.
Since the chondas are so appealing with their cheap pricing, I suggest the club allow the smaller 84cc 2.4hp motors within the class. They will certainly come closer to fitting the kid kart chassis and could likely be developed into a more cost effective competitive option within the class.

And concerning the comers, I will once again suggest the need for a higher weight option within the class where heavier kids could still be competitive. I mentioned this in my earlier comment utilizing a weight of 170-175 range that allowed use of modified clutches and mufflers to get the heavier karts competitive.

And finally, Quit talking of replacing the comers and busting up a class that actually works. It is being successfully ran at NTK, all over the state and all over our nation. If you want to improve it, consider allowing options that will give the parents choices to better suit their needs, desires and requirements.
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Re: Anybody Interested in a Clone Rookie Class?

Postby Brian Swanson » Sat Aug 25, 2012 9:29 am

Jeff Mitchell wrote:Brian,
Your right. The clone rookie class did run at the clone nationals. But that is not a kid kart class. The minimum age for that class is 7 years old. Any kid karters who run that class or anything other than the kid kart class must move up and are no longer elgible to compete in the kid kart class or its nationals in St Louis.

Your proposed class is the next step up rather than a replacement for the kid kart class. The 6.5 box stock clone is just too big for a kid kart therefore, it will most certainly require buying your mentioned cadet chassis. At the weight you proposed, I could put both of my boys on one of their kid karts and would still need to add an additional 75 lbs. of weight to be legal. (Since you will likely want to do the math: Their combined weight is 90 lbs.)

As far as your $800 dollar pricing of a comer, I think it is too high for a used motor. I bought the most expensive Comer I have seen on ebay in the past 18 months and it was well worth every penny paid. That being said at least 90% of the motors go for $650 or less with the majority selling between the 350-450 range. Motors priced more expensively do not typically sell. I have saved within my ebay watch list nearly all of the comers sold within the past six months and could prove these numbers if anyone so desires.

I THINK the kid kart class works fine as it is but could certainly be improved with a few changes. Instead of trashing the comers, allow additional engine options.
The the briggs L206 is likely a good alternative from the performance perspective. However, I do not believe the club ever specified the rules for this motor. I would suggest using the Jr 206 engine rules from Briggs and Straton. The comers and the briggs should then run within about 1/2 second of each other with the briggs potentially being faster.
Since the chondas are so appealing with their cheap pricing, I suggest the club allow the smaller 84cc 2.4hp motors within the class. They will certainly come closer to fitting the kid kart chassis and could likely be developed into a more cost effective competitive option within the class.

And concerning the comers, I will once again suggest the need for a higher weight option within the class where heavier kids could still be competitive. I mentioned this in my earlier comment utilizing a weight of 170-175 range that allowed use of modified clutches and mufflers to get the heavier karts competitive.

And finally, Quit talking of replacing the comers and busting up a class that actually works. It is being successfully ran at NTK, all over the state and all over our nation. If you want to improve it, consider allowing options that will give the parents choices to better suit their needs, desires and requirements.


You missed the point... Never said toss out kid kart class entirely. Never once. I was looking for people in our situation.
Yes... I Know the rookie Class rules. Blake will be 7 in April so yes I'm talking about this for next yr.
I never said "replace" kid kart class with a cadet kart Clone class or put clones on a kid kart chassis. And YES they do put clones on kid karts. They fit. I have pics if you want them. This Rookie clone class IS an economical step between for bigger kids or kids that have turned 7 and want something faster. If you have a tiny kid good for you then by all means run kid kart til they turn 8 or 9. And once again... The Briggs engine change over does nothing for big kids over the weight. All other tracks run those at the same weight. True, buying used junk on ebay is always cheaper (example: my 2 clone eng purchase). I was talking new price on comers...my bad.
Doing a modified option for a weight problem opens up a whole new can of worms. RELAIBILITY and Cost.

My point is this....
The rookie clone class is an affordable option compared to MICO MAX which Blake and others can race at age 7. $3500-5000 for a new Micro Max Class kart and engine package. I know I don't have to buy new. But I do. I like knowing my stuff is legal and not bent. I can build a BRAND NEW CADET KART and ENGINE package for Rookie Clone class for LESS than NEW KID KART with Comer package (due to engine price)!!! And that clone engine moves on up from rookie to JR to SR class if needed. The "other" options do not... Race it. Hope to sell it and lose $$ in the process for those guys.
Simple economics... That's all.

We are out of the Kid Kart class as of yesterday... Sold it. I'm going to build a cadet clone. Everyone can look at it. Drive it. Love it. Hate it. We will be racing it somewhere.
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Re: Anybody Interested in a Clone Rookie Class?

Postby Brian Swanson » Sat Aug 25, 2012 9:33 am

Mike Engstrom wrote:Maybe you need to look at dirt kart racing. It's a whole lot safer than motocross. Kids race in a kart with roll cage. Buy one chassis and can use it from beginner class 3.5 Briggs all the way to a 250, 2 stroke or 250 4 stroke. Even being a little over weight doesn't hurt you near as much on dirt tracking. It's a LOT on setup. 8-12 karts per class, dealing with traffic and learning race craft. Just a thought, give me a call, 817-638-5278


Thanks.. But cage karts are not what I prefer...

I did the whole dirt oval thing when I was a kid. Started in '82 and did it up til I went street racing in the 90's. I even have an IKF Duffy collecting dust on my shelf...

I just can't get used to the cages...
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