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Clone motors

Discussion forum for 4-Cycle classes.

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Re: Clone motors

Postby George Kraus » Mon Dec 21, 2009 11:21 pm

Motor get claimed:
Made in China doesn't mean that it's the same or even equal.
Now I have to go get a new motor,and break it in.
I can't get China made stuff within their own spects now. I don't see that changing.
I'm not "spending" any more money.
I'm cleaning up, fixing misalinements, only my time and efforts.
I am not buying a single part except $4.00 valve spings from Honda and I have run out of valve lapping compound.
It's basic twirling some wrenches.
A racer that doesn't want more performance from their stuff, ain't racing.
Doctor say that I can go drive, check the bloodpressure and LET'S SEE.

Whoot!!!!!!!!!
George Kraus
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Re: Clone motors

Postby Yaani-Mai Gaddy » Mon Dec 21, 2009 11:22 pm

Here are some photos of my Chonda motor.
chonda1.jpg
chonda1.jpg (91.32 KiB) Viewed 1452 times
chonda4.jpg
chonda4.jpg (98.49 KiB) Viewed 1452 times
chonda3.jpg
chonda3.jpg (94.63 KiB) Viewed 1452 times
chonda2.jpg
chonda2.jpg (88.22 KiB) Viewed 1452 times
chonda5.jpg
chonda5.jpg (105.43 KiB) Viewed 1452 times
Yaani-Mai Gaddy
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972-462-8393
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Re: Clone motors

Postby George Kraus » Mon Dec 21, 2009 11:30 pm

I see a gasket loose. Someone already twirling wrenches ??
Might need to tie down the pulse line / fuel line away from the muffler.
Safety frist.
Safety wire any where ?
Doctor say that I can go drive, check the bloodpressure and LET'S SEE.

Whoot!!!!!!!!!
George Kraus
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Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2006 4:38 pm
Location: Irving

Re: Clone motors

Postby Yaani-Mai Gaddy » Mon Dec 21, 2009 11:38 pm

George,

The engines are made by Lifan. They are probably the largest manufacturer of small engines for motorcycles, scooters etc... They used to produce the 4-cycle engines for Honda. They are the same as the Honda, I guess that is why they call them the Honda clone. When you get one & take it apart & look at it it is surprising how well made it is for the cost.

If you look at how they are taking off at Katy & other parts of the country I think this could mean a class with large entries which will be affordable & fun. Everyone likes to be in a class with a lot of entries. Katy has only had the class for a few races & it already has 11 entries.

The club entry count is down. This could be a great way to get more members & entries & also a feeder to the other classes.
Yaani-Mai Gaddy
www.gaddywebdesign.com
972-462-8393
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Re: Clone motors

Postby Yaani-Mai Gaddy » Mon Dec 21, 2009 11:47 pm

George Kraus wrote:I see a gasket loose. Someone already twirling wrenches ??
Might need to tie down the pulse line / fuel line away from the muffler.
Safety frist.
Safety wire any where ?


George,

Of course we have been twirling wrenches. What exactly are you getting at? You have to take the thing apart to take the governor out & remove the oil sensor and the fuel tank that comes attached to it. I have three of these engines in various stages of assembly & parts all over the place. I think that gasket is the one that goes with the exhaust pipe but I am not positive. That is something that comes with the ARC Racing parts kit & has to be assembled onto the engine. I could ask my mechanic but he is at the shop.

I think the fuel line looks like it is close to the muffler but I think that is the angle the photo is taken at. It is on the kart now & everything is very safe & in order. My mechanic definitely knows what he is doing. We just have to worry about my driving! :D
Yaani-Mai Gaddy
www.gaddywebdesign.com
972-462-8393
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Re: Clone motors

Postby George Kraus » Mon Dec 21, 2009 11:49 pm

YM,
I got a silly question but what way is the motor turning while running. Please don't get me wrong but the way the starter looks like to me it turns counterclockwise running.
I have to have a clockwise running motor on my Kart.

I hope you have the biggest class on the track, it's just not for me.

Good luck !!

OH yea the track is now open for all members.
Doctor say that I can go drive, check the bloodpressure and LET'S SEE.

Whoot!!!!!!!!!
George Kraus
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Posts: 172
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2006 4:38 pm
Location: Irving

Re: Clone motors

Postby Yaani-Mai Gaddy » Tue Dec 22, 2009 12:01 am

George,

I'm not sure. I will ask Gene & let you know. I am excited to have a kart with an engine that won't be too much for me to handle. I don't think this is for experienced drivers like yourself. I think it is more of an entry level class. But there are some Dads down in Katy that are driving them that weren't racing before just wrenching for their kids. It is a class where you can take an old chassis & put a cheap engine on it & have some fun. It is low maintenance. You don't have to work on the engine between races. Some of the Moms in Katy have started racing too. It is an engine you don't have to be afraid of & it won't scare the pants off you the first time you drive it. The first time I drove my kids Rotax karts was scary! It still is. :shock:
Yaani-Mai Gaddy
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972-462-8393
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Re: Clone motors

Postby Yaani-Mai Gaddy » Tue Dec 22, 2009 12:17 am

I really don't like the way photos display on this forum. I will see if I can find a way to fix that.
Yaani-Mai Gaddy
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Re: Clone motors

Postby George Kraus » Tue Dec 22, 2009 7:26 am

I don't see to much air getting to the out the top of the motor with the aluminum "cover" on it.
Ask your mechinic if they want to have some slots milled into the top for more air release.
Got some free time in the shop right now waiting for some material to come in. Cooler motors might last longer I think.
I got to the end of the year before I have to get back into production mode in the shop. Could do all 3 now for youall if you wanted to.
Merry Christmas.
Doctor say that I can go drive, check the bloodpressure and LET'S SEE.

Whoot!!!!!!!!!
George Kraus
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Posts: 172
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2006 4:38 pm
Location: Irving

Re: Clone motors

Postby Yaani-Mai Gaddy » Tue Dec 22, 2009 9:54 am

George,

Thanks for the offer, I will pass it on to Gene. I don't know how hot the engine gets, I know the muffler gets really hot! The boys got home late last night. I think we are going to the track today to test. I will let you know how it goes.
Yaani-Mai Gaddy
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Re: Clone motors

Postby Mike Urbanski » Wed Dec 23, 2009 9:51 pm

Well Yaani did you guys get a chance to go out and test? Interested to hear how things went. My motor is all put together just need a chassis for it.

For what it is worth if the club rules follow GC or others running the BS class nothing can be done to the motor except jet changes, not even valve springs. This class has proven in other parts of the country to be pretty difficult to tech. That is why so many are using a claim of $160.

There is a guy on the east coast who has been running 10 of these as a rental race program. All blocks are numbered and participants draw numbers before the race for motors. Cost is $20 per rental $30 if 2 drivers use motor.This covers gas, oil, and any work that might need to be done. You use your own chassis. And no tire rule at this time.

He has been keeping logs on the motors and how they perform. Last I read only one motor had been removed because of lack of consistency. Not bad for a $100 motor. That motor could be wrenched on and more money thrown at it to run an open or modified class, or just take it back and get another one with your warranty.

I don't claim to know all about this but if affordable racing is what you all are after to get kart counts up. This is as affordable as it gets. Is it the best answer, don't know. But it has quite a following in a lot of areas.

I personally am looking forward to the animal class. It all comes down to budget and how much you want to spend.

Mike
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Re: Clone motors

Postby Yaani-Mai Gaddy » Thu Dec 24, 2009 12:22 am

Mike,

Yes we went to the track yesterday & it was awesome! The track is so smoooooth - No sore ribs today! :D

My boys are in town, We didn't get to the track till about 4pm so we didn't have much time to drive as we all took turns with the Chonda kart.

The track is very slippery, it doesn't have any rubber & is slick. Austin ran about 20 laps his fastest lap time was a 48.19, he drove the smoothest. Ansel drove (about 15 laps) more aggressively in the turns which scruffed off speed, he ran a 49.03 & I drove about 30 laps & managed a 49.74 in my last session. We had 6 year old YHC tyres on it. We were the only ones out there but had a really great time.

It reaches a top speed of exactly 50 mph at about the same time the motor stops pulling at about 5,300 - 5,400rpm near the end of the straight. We may gear it a little lower so it runs out before the end of the straight picking up the power in the turns which is not as bad as Gene & the boys thought it would be but could be improved. We have a 15 tooth driver gear on it. It may be a little bit lean, the jet was drilled out from the stock .030" to .038". Some people in other forums say in cool weather you might need to run at .039" or .040". The jet was drilled with a simple pin vice and a #62 (I think) drill bit. You can always go bigger but not smaller with the same jet & that was the only one we had with us. With a little jetting & a little gearing Ansel & Austin thought it can pick up 2+ seconds. But remember this is just a kart with no lead on it so it is under weight by a lot to what the rules will require.

We used a 1 gallon fuel container & bought 3 quarts of the 87 octane regular gas for less than $2. After driving we still had 2 quarts left. It uses almost no fuel. Our entire session cost us about 75c in fuel.

I wouldn't mind putting all the motors in a pool & drawing for them and you get your own back after the race. But you do have to spend some time building this motor. You will spend at least 3 or 4 hours doing everything you have to do to the governor, oil sensor, fuel tank, top plate, clutch, etc..to get it race ready. So if you have to give it up for a claim you will not be out any money but you will be out the time it took you to race prep the motor.

That's not a bad idea to have some owned by the club, they are cheap enough. If the club charged $20 per motor (in addition to the entry fee) they would only have to rent it 5 times & it would be paid for, any additional rentals would be for a profit. They don't need any work between races so maintenance on them would be minimal.

Note: Technical details provided by Gene Gaddy, my Mechanic & Tuner.

P.S. I went off the track coming around turn #3 (no grip, I'm sorry grass sprouts!) & went into the tyres. The motor didn't die or stop & I hopped out & pulled it back onto the track & jumped back in with it still running. Gene is really happy he doesn't have to run after me with a heavy starter. I can pull start it easily by myself. The motor has a built in system that reduces the compression when you pull start it. It almost feels like it has no compression but it starts easily.
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Re: Clone motors

Postby Yaani-Mai Gaddy » Thu Dec 24, 2009 1:34 am

George Kraus wrote:I don't see to much air getting to the out the top of the motor with the aluminum "cover" on it.


The top cover sits where the fuel tank used to be before it was removed. ARC Racing has built thousands of them & they work very well. There is a good gap between the motor & the top cover. The engine is fan cooled so it is always blowing air through it. This engine is perfectly suited to sit still at full throttle which would burn up a 2-stroke.

George Kraus wrote:I got a silly question but what way is the motor turning while running. Please don't get me wrong but the way the starter looks like to me it turns counterclockwise running.
I have to have a clockwise running motor on my Kart.


Gene says all 4-strokes run that way with the sprocket carrier inside the frame rails. You have to use split sprockets.
Yaani-Mai Gaddy
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Re: Clone motors

Postby George Kraus » Thu Dec 24, 2009 8:17 am

Glad youall got to test. All good info.

Maybe someone should present a set of rules for the class at rules meeting and decide on if you are drawing for motors or claiming motors.

New class, need some rules.

What tires were you using, MG yellows ?

Thanks again for the info.
Doctor say that I can go drive, check the bloodpressure and LET'S SEE.

Whoot!!!!!!!!!
George Kraus
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Posts: 172
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2006 4:38 pm
Location: Irving

Re: Clone motors

Postby Yaani-Mai Gaddy » Thu Dec 24, 2009 9:56 am

George,

Yes we need to come up with the rules. I am working with John Ray on it. The tyres will be the same as all the other classes, whatever gets voted on at the rules meeting which will probably be MGs. I hear everyone likes the MGs.

I tested with 6 year old YHCs. We only have old Bridgestones right now. I didn't race this past year. I'm sure times will improve if there is more rubber on the track and if we had better tyres.
Yaani-Mai Gaddy
www.gaddywebdesign.com
972-462-8393
Yaani-Mai Gaddy
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